Does school row expose 'Charedi coup'?

The first Hackney Gazette of 2012 features a letter and a news story both of which raise concerns about schools for ultra orthodox Jewish (Charedi) children which have opened illegally in and around Stamford Hill.

Some of these schools have been granted retrospective planning permission but usually with conditions attached.

A Google search suggests at least three similar cases (any more please let me know and I will amend if there are any updates.)

Torah V'Yirah, 91 Amhurst Park.

Beis Trana, at 186-194 Upper Clapton Road. (Both discussed in a Jewish Chronicle piece )

The Gur school in Fairholt Road (Another Jewish chronice piece).

The Gazette's news story covered the Gur school which got its planning permission in July but with conditions that it has failed to meet. The Gazette said: "The council has since served several enforcement notices which have been ignored."

The school has now appealed against the conditions of the temporary planning permission.

The letter in the Gazette is about another school, the Torah V'Yirah at 91 Amhurst Road (The Gazette originally wrote this story on December 16). On Tuesday 10 January the Council's planning committee will vote on whether this school should be granted retrospective planning permission too.

Council officers have recommended refusing permission and under normal circumstances this matter would not have gone before a committee. But a petition of 10 councillors has forced it on to the agenda on Tuesday.

Two councillors who sit on the committee (Ian Sharer, Leader of Hackney Lib Dems and Michael Levy, Leader of the Conservative Group) ) have put their names to the petition calling for the schools argument to be heard and not refused on the basis of the officer recommendation.

Nigel Lewis' letter to the Gazette also referred to a meeting with Hackney Councillors in June 2011 - this included Abraham Jacobson (Lib Dem), Ian Sharer (Leader of Hackney Lib Dems), Simche Steinberger (Conservative), Michael Levy (Leader of the Conservative Group) and Benzion Papier (Conservative) as well as Linda Kelly (Conservative) and Dawood Akhoon (Lib Dem) who have all signed the petition.

Lewis' letter described the June meeting as "a Charedi-run closed shop determined to stifle local democracy".

He added that: "The recent petition likewise appears to be the prelude to an intended coup, in which large areas of Hackney's planning will henceforth be managed with Charedi interests uppermost, irrespective of other people."

This may sound a bit insensitive but tensions around planning and  the Charedi community have dogged Hackney politics for years. During the last Mayoral election Andrew Boff, Conservative member of the London Assembly and candidate for Mayor of Hackney, criticised this blog for suggesting that the Conservative party sometimes behaved like an ultra orthodox Jewish lobby group in Hackney: Reply to Andrew Boff.

A couple of years ago Mayor Jules Pipe criticised Cllr Simche Steinberger for putting the interests of the Charedi community ahead of other Hackney residents.

This is how he described it later in an interview with Blood and Property: "I believe that it was the adopted principle of the entire Hackney Conservative group to oppose the Council’s clarification of planning policy regarding residential extensions. In my opinion, in attempting to negotiate the removal of the item from the Cabinet agenda in return for his acquiescence to allowing an urgent item that lowered council housing rents, he put furthering his group’s political position above operating correctly as Chair of Overview and Scrutiny."

The other side

The debate about ultra orthodox Jewish education facilities has been rumbling for a while in Hackney and the Council has been criticised for not acknowledging the problems faced by its fastest growing community.

Rabbi Abraham (Avraham) Pinter, a regular spokesman for the community and principal at Yesodey Hatorah School led a campaign to turn the site of an old Hackney School into a school for ultra orthodox Jewish pupils rather than turn it into residential homes.

At the time he told the Jewish Chronicle that the site represented "a unique opportunity for the Charedi community in Stamford Hill to have improved purpose-built educational facilities. More than 20 per cent of Hackney's under-16s come from the Charedi community and many of our existing schools are old fashioned, sub-standard residential buildings.

He said: "It is an absolute scandal that the educational needs of the fastest growing part of Britain's Jewish community are being ignored by Hackney Council," he claimed. In other words something needs to be done about schools in the community and until then illegal ones will probably keep popping up.


General tension

The ultra orthodox Jewish community seems to have a rocky record in terms of community cohesion. It is often criticised by the mainstream Jewish media here. Between Christmas and New Year the BBC reported stand-offs in Israel as the wider Israeli population protested against demands for gender segregation.

At the end of last year Geoffrey Alderman, historian and columnist for the Jewish Chronicle, raised tensions when he claimed it was "well known that charedi men are notorious harassers of the opposite sex." (Republishing this comment has offended a reader - see comment below - but the context and a response from Rabbi Pinter are included in the link, I'm hoping that's enough to justify repeating Alderman's claim which is not there because I believe it but to demonstrate that this debate has become very heated within the Jewish community itself. Anyway, if you have a problem with this please let me know via comments below.)

Justified or not, is there any way to usefully address these issues before the effects of a poorly performing economy fray tolerance levels?

Stop worrying and learn to love race politics

Ethnicity and religion drive Hackney politics, not class, says Professor Geoffrey Alderman, a leading academic on British elections and modern British Jewry.

Alderman, a columnist for the Jewish Chronicle and writer for the Guardian and the Times (profile) tells Blood and Property that politicians are deluding themselves if they don't accept that people vote along ethnic lines.

GEOFFREY ALDERMAN: I went to Northwold Road school and then the Grocer’s Company's School Hackney Downs, which, in its time was the best state school in the country. From there I went to Oxford. I am the official historian of Hackney Downs school and when I went to the school it was so Jewish that it closed on the Jewish holidays, there was no point in keeping it open. The few Christian boys there wanted to know when the Jewish holidays were so they could find out when the school would be shut.

I’m not sure if the Jewish community is larger or smaller than it was, probably larger now. My grandfather moved from Spitalfields to Hackney circa 1937 and rented the property my parents later bought in Walsingham Road. The Jewish community I grew up in in the 1950s and 60s was traditional but, on the whole, not a strictly practising Jewish community. The black hat Jews of Stamford Hill today were in a tiny minority then and they were exotic oddities.

The area began to change character in the 1960s after the Hungarian uprising which the Soviets brutally repressed. The Hassidic Jews survived the holocaust in Hungary and began to move into Hackney in the 1960s. Now they form the majority of Jews there.

But as a youngster I never saw many Hassidic Jews, may be one or two, now they form the majority of Hackney Jewry and demographically they are the fastest growing section of British Jewry. In Stamford Hill and Stoke Newington you will find families of of 11, 12, 13. This has been one of the pressures for planning permission.

In Modern British Jewry I deal with the political organisation of the Orthodox Jews in Hackney. When I was doing the research in the late 70s and early 80s it was already evident to me that the growing ultra-orthodox community (acted) through Agudas Israel, an organisation which functions as a mini-welfare state, and which publishes a weekly paper, the Jewish Tribune, .

A very important part in this community has been played by Joe Lobenstein, four times Mayor of Hackney. In my book The Jewish Community in British Politics I mention him and the pioneering work he was doing especially in reviving Conservative politics amongst Jews in Hackney.

But he, I believe, was getting ultra-orthodox Jews to vote for him because he was Jewish, not because of the party he was in. This tendency was definitely being observed by me in the late 1970s – Jews voting for Jewish candidates irrespective of their party politics.

One might ask, is this democracy? Well of course it is. These Jews are British, they pay taxes and they vote. Who are you or I to tell them how to vote? If they want to vote in a particular way then that is their right, whether you celebrate it or despise it.

May I make a general point here? I don’t think we in England, or London have yet got used to the idea of an ethnic political system. In the US, ethnic politics is so conventional they don’t bat an eyelid. There’s the Jewish vote, the Irish vote, the Italian vote. They are used to an ethnic based politics. We are not.

When I started investigating it in the 1970s everyone was talking about class and how you had to understand class. Class - it was said - was the basis of the British political system, everything else was embellishment. But I saw something else in Hackney and it was more like the situation in the US, where socio-economic class is less important and ethnicity and religion are - often - much more important.

In the book I also refer to the fact that Agudas Israel was already beginning to acquire a level of sophistication. In another book I published in the 1980s on London Jewry, I also noted how Agudas Israel had taken the trouble to rebrand itself to get resources for its community as Hackney descended into a battleground between competing ethnic factions.

It had previously described itself as Jewish rather than as representing an ethnic minority. Previously the Jews of Hackney had projected themselves as British people. Agudas Israel was sensitive to the rise in ethnic politics and said: “We’re not part of the working class, we’re an ethnic minority and we're discriminated against. We need resources."

Agudas Israel went along to the Ken Livingstone-led Labour faction that then controlled the Greater London Council. This faction paid attention. Agudas Yisroel played the game brilliantly.

I am fascinated by the relationship between the left-wing Diane Abbott and this community. On the face of it they have nothing in common. She stands for things such as democracy, free speech and women's rights. These are anathema amongst the chassidim of Stoke Newington and Stamford Hill. One has only to read the anti-feminist and anti-black rhetoric put out by the Jewish Tribune to see that this is so. As for the gays, the Tribune wouldn't even dare mention the term.

I recall that in 1978 there was terrible scandal when the Yiddish Tribune ran a piece criticising Greville Janner for defending black people in Parliament. The publishers didn’t realise that other people might speak Yiddish and the following week the West Indian World translated this appalling editorial. That doesn’t happen any more, but not because the views have changed but because the Jewish Tribune knows other people can understand Yiddish."

How many Jewish councillors are women? None. Why? Because the type of orthodoxy in Stamford Hill allocates a certain role to women: to get married, have as many children as possible and to maintain a Kosher home. And in the home it is the woman who is the boss, not the man.

How many female Orthodox Jewish school governors are there? Only the minimum required by law. However they can be teachers and head teachers but they cannot be in a position of political leadership. And as far as this community is concerned there is no such thing as a female Rabbi. Outside the home it is a male dominated society. It is ruled by Rabbis, it is a theocracy. (Alderman said that this might be changing as Bella Sharer, wife of Ian Sharer, leader of the Lib Dems in Hackney, is standing in the May 6 elections.)


Every article, every advertisement in the Jewish Tribune is approved by a Rabbinical censor. If you are defamed by the Jewish Tribune you can’t go to the PCC, it is one of only a handful of UK papers that is not a member.

That said, the community is generally disinterested in wealth and its members do tend to help each other when help is needed. The men "learn" Talmud all the day and it is the women who go to work. Interestingly, this community has no problem in principle with women working and there are some very wealthy women in the community.

Whether you or I like the community is irrelevant. The community is very well organised, very hospitable and very successful. Its members may dress in ways we find peculiar, but you won't find its youngsters involved in gun and knife crime that is, alas, so rampant now in the Hackney I once knew.

Chops, changes, councillor controversies...

This morning Matthew Coggins, leader of Hackney's Conservative group, expressed a little frustration at Blood and Property's "obsession" with the ultra-orthodox Jewish community. It was much the same as the frustration expressed by Conservative mayoral candidate, Andrew Boff, when he answered Blood and Property's 'distasteful' questions two weeks ago.

Meanwhile, Ian Sharer, leader of Hackney's Lib Dems, who is an ultra-orthodox Jew, expressed no such frustration.

Luckily both Sharer and Coggins were happy to discuss the changes that have taken place in their candidate line-ups.

And the most interesting changes appear to be those affecting the ultra-orthodox Jewish community.

The fates of two are of particular interest. Joseph Stauber, who was a Lib Dem councillor in Cazenove ward from 2002 until he defected to Labour in 2008, will not be standing again. He was the only ultra-orthodox Labour councillor in Hackney.

And Simon Tesler, former ultra-orthodox Jewish Conservative councillor for Lordship, was de-selected. He has decided to stand as an independent in the ward.

Tesler was one of six ultra-orthodox Jewish councillors in the Conservative Group. But he has been replaced by Alexander Ellis, who was the Conservative candidate for the GLA in 2008.

The swapping of Tesler for Ellis is not totally straight forward. The Conservative decision to drop Tesler might have been made more painful because the party also took on a new ultra-orthodox Jewish councillor to replace a departing Jacob Landau.

Via a chain of replacements, Landau's departure made an opening for Benzion Tapier. This could be seen as a double snub for Tesler and might explain his decision to stand as an independent.

Tesler could still argue that he isn't splitting the "Jewish vote" (an interesting article) by standing because he has not been replaced by an ultra-orthodox Jewish councillor. He is simply relying on those who supported him before. A Labour source said that this rift in the Conservative Party could make the ward an interesting one to watch.

Matthew Coggins, said that Tesler's position had disproved the theory that ulta-orthodox Jewish councillors don't stand against each other.

But according to Lib Dem leader Ian Sharer, this practice is very much still the norm.

Sharer has always been open about the tendency of ultra-orthodox Jews not to stand against each other in elections. In January he told Blood and Property: "It is not a scriptural thing. The basic thing is that the Jewish community votes for Jewish councillors. They don't care which party you're in. They support you if you're Jewish."

He said that having more than one Jewish candidate in an election made it "confusing" and that these conflicts could get "nasty and a bit silly". He said that tactical voting of this kind took place in various forms in all politics.

He said that Stauber wasn't standing again in Cazenove because they were friends and didn't want to stand against each other.

But he made no bones about the fact that he and Abraham Jacobson were the only two ultra-orthodox Jewish councillors standing in the ward and that they are both Lib Dems because Jewish people don't like standing against each other.

Even so, why hasn't Stauber, the Labour party's only ultra-orthodox Jewish Councillor, managed to find another seat? He certainly tried to find one. What could have stopped him standing for Labour in Stamford Hill?

A Labour source said that Stauber "has taken it very well and still wants to be involved" adding that he hoped that it would be possible to find a way for him back onto the council. He also said that the Labour Party had always been keen to have a representative from the ultra orthodox Jewish community.

Another interesting fact is that Ian Sharer's wife, Bella Sharer, is standing in Brownswood. In doing so (and she's stood in elections before) she will (I've been told) be breaking new ground for women in the ultra-orthodox Jewish community. According to her husband, the seat she is contesting this time is much more winnable.

Nominations for council elections closed on April 8. Here's the full list of candidates broken down into wards.

Changes in the Labour Party are more numerous but don't seem to be controversial. You can find the Labour ward candidates here.

LIB DEM buzz.

Ian Sharer, Matthew Coggins and the Labour Party source, were all aware that there has been a significant rise in Lib Dem support in the borough. Sharer didn't want to put a figure on the change but simply said he'd never seen anything like it.

He said he didn't quite believe that people who had voted Labour for twenty years would be able to make the change.

Labour said that the Lib Dem threat could prove a problem in wards where the Greens are already weak but in wards where Greens are strong, the shift to the Lib Dems could help Labour.

Apologies for not mentioning anything about Green candidates, I didn't have time. Interesting piece on Luke's Blog about recycling of Green councillors.

I'm also hoping to write up the hustings from last night at Hackney Community college - most interesting moment was the reaction to Meg Hillier's comment along the lines of: "If you went to Lithuania would you expect the Lithuanians to pay for you to learn their language?"

Democracy problem in Stamford Hill?

Is there a pact between Jewish politicians in Stamford Hill not to stand against each other in elections?

Some Hackney politicians have commented on this - unfortunately most of it was off the record. One suggested that there may be a pact between the Lib Dems and the Conservative Jewish candidates not to stand against each other.

But this week Cllr Matthew Coggins, leader of the Hackney Conservative group denied this.

The evidence suggests that Orthodox Jewish candidates don't oppose each other, whichever political party they represent. If this due to a comfortable arrangement between politicians in opposing parties, it would be antidemocratic.

But the conspiracy theory - and its implications for democracy - is not the only explanation.

1. A religious principle?

One non-Jewish councillor said: "The main reason they won’t stand against each other is a reluctance to promote division within the community. They don’t want to encourage that.
At the same time they are not terribly interested in it. There are religious principles about not having these arguments publicly."

The same councillor claimed that there may be a scriptural justification for this avoidance of conflict. Asked if there was some specific text that dealt with this he said: "There is, yes, but I’m not entirely clear about what it is. But it is not a rule."

Ian Sharer, leader of the Lib Dems said there was no religious reason why candidates from the Jewish community couldn't stand against each other: "It is not a scriptural thing. The basic thing is that the Jewish community votes for Jewish councillors. They don't care which party you're in. They support you if you're Jewish."

2 Not enough candidates:

One councillor said: "Another reason why they aren’t standing against each other is that there aren’t people there who want the job."

He said that parties didn't have Jewish candidates queuing up and said that Labour had been looking for an OJ councillor for years before Joseph Stauber defected from the Lib Dems.

But Ian Sharer said that having more than one Jewish candidate in an election made it "confusing" and that these conflicts could get "nasty and a bit silly". But he didn't say there was a formal agreement not to stand against each other, adding that it had happened in the past.

3. Conspiracy:

That Jewish candidates agree not to split the Jewish vote and so do not stand against each other.

The evidence is simply that Jewish candidates very rarely stand against each other. I've been told - but haven't checked - that the last time Jewish candidates stood against each other was in the New River by election in 2005 when Harvey Odze (Conservative) and Mani Silver (Lib Dem) stood against each other.

But prior to that there is a long gap going back to Abraham Pinter - who became a Labour Councillor in the 80s/90s.

Do Hackney politicians believe in ghosts?

Hackney politicians were asked:

1. Have you ever had a supernatural experience? (Could you give a brief description? Include anything from ghosts to aliens or mediums - or whatever you consider to be supernatural.)

2. Whether or not you have had a supernatural experience, is it a subject that you would class as significant or insignificant? Do you think people should take any of it seriously?

Of 57 councillors, 1 Mayor, 2 London Assembly Members and 2 MPs who represent Hackney, 21 responded. Judging by the replies, many of them thought this was a waste of time, so thanks for replying and if there are any more to come, please send them in.

The replies:

Alan Laing, Labour: As per your comment on your own blog that these questions were "not meant to be a serious exercise", I didn't respond. However, looking at the rest of your blog, perhaps it might be of more help to point out that I am an atheist and believe in a secular society.

Jennette Arnold, Labour: From my background I am very familiar with the culture of belief in ghosts and spirits. As a youngster my grandfather would regularly take me with him on occasions where he told me he was exorcising ghosts!!
On the serious side of this though there is a culture, in some communities, of witch-craft which is incredibly dangerous and has already lead to the death and abuse of children. As a patron of the Victoria Climbié Foundation I have campaigned on this issue for years, however, a lot of work still needs to be done.

Sally Mulready, Labour: Sorry,I have no particular thoughts on this subject

Matthew Coggins, Conservative: I have lived in two houses where I believe there were ghosts present. There were smell and temperature changes but I never saw anything.
The first was in Blackburn, as a child, when my father got someone to come in and deal with it. And I had a similar problem in a house in Stoke Newington.
I'd say my experiences weren't of any significance to me really - I just treated them as a curiosity.

Julius Nkafu , Labour, I am a Christian-Catholic and believe in the HOLY ghost or the HOLY Spirit. I believe in the Power of God and know of the many instances of the Lord's divine interventions to our every day lives.

Michael Desmond, Labour: The only “supernatural” experience I’ve ever had was when I was 14, doing work experience for 3 weeks in Borough, South London at my father’s cousin’s accountancy practice. I turned on a tap, the old rickety piping caused water to gush out in such a way words were audible; those words were "Get away from here! …get away from here!" Whether it was a scientific or supernatural phenomenon, I rightly decided never to become an accountant! I think spirituality is very important, I believe each person has a soul which can continue after death. Spirituality is significant, the supernatural less so.

Luke Akehurst, Labour I haven't personally had a supernatural experience but have met a few people who say they have and are people I trust so I have an open mind.

Ian Sharer, Lib Dem: "I've not had supernatural experiences myself but a very good friend of mine did. He was an atheist. One day I saw him in the synagogue and he said he had had a heart attack and that he had died and been revived in hospital. He said he had had an out-of-body experience during which he had met his mother who said: "We're not ready here for you yet." He became religious for the last year of his life. He was a friend of my father's and what had happened to him was clear enough in his mind. I'm very religious. The truth is that your view will depend on what you call supernatural. But people do talk about things like the supernatural, evil spirits, and this does border on religion. If you believe in heaven and hell then all of this stuff is bound up. It does appear to be a religious thing. I certainly am open to views on these things. Jewish books that we study say things like "if you could see what was standing next to you, you would die with fright". There are countless things to do with this that we don't understand. For example it is strictly against my religion to use a Ouija board. Obviously there's a belief that there is something going on there.

Patrick Vernon, Labour: I have not had a supernatural experience but I would say that when I have been to Africa and visited the slave forts in Ghana, Gambia and Senegal and also in East Africa Zanzibar I have experienced or felt the unrest of souls of Africans that were captured as part of the transatlantic and Arabic slave trade.
I think we should not rule out any experience of a supernatural nature as we still are understanding interaction of the human spirit and the impact of exploitation and historical injustice.


Clayeon Mackenzie, Labour: I have no comments on this issue.

Jules Pipe, Labour: I am happy to confirm that I have never felt the need to attribute any event to ‘supernatural’ causes. Whilst I accept that people are entitled to hold whatever beliefs they like – as long as this causes no harm to others – this is not a subject to which I would ascribe any significance, nor which I would wish to see taken any more seriously than it already is.


Darren Parker, Labour: I have not had any experience of the supernatural myself. You may find it of interest that the 5th most haunted street is said to be Gloucester Drive in my ward:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/oct/31/britishidentity.martinwainwright
http://www.roadsuk.com/roadepedia/haunted.html

Mischa Borris, Green: I've not had any supernatural experiences, and I have no particular view on its significance or otherwise. Everyone needs an interest in life, and so long as it doesn't take over someone's life, or lead to fraud (e.g. mediums) that's fine.
If there are "ghosts" then they might be some kind of blip in the time continuum, rather than unquiet spirits.

Linda Smith, Labour: I have never had a supernatural experience. It is not an issue that is at all significant in my work as a councillor or my life generally. If people wish to take it seriously it is up to them, indeed I believe people's right to believe and express their belief in religion which I would class as being supernatural is now enshrined in law.

Tom Price, Labour: (Any experience of the supernaturual?) No - happily not. (Is the supernatural significant?) I would class it as insignificant and not to be taken seriously.

Geoffrey Taylor, Labour: Yes, I have had experiences I could not explain. Sometimes they don’t really need explanation, for instance if a series of events seem to fit conveniently together, that’s really coincidence or chance, as is obvious when you think of all the very many occasions when events don’t fit together particularly conveniently. Some of the other cases I put down to my brain operating out of my conscious control or knowledge and then pushing some thought into my consciousness. And the rest I’m happy to say I don’t understand, though I think that in principle if not (yet) in practice they are susceptible to scientific explanation.
I think people should take life in general seriously. Getting hung up on the so-called supernatural can often mean that people cease to feel the awe they ought to feel in contemplating perfectly natural but wonderful things. You’d think that the natural world, including our loving human relationships and our quest for truth, would be quite enough to keep us thrilled and fascinated without having to reach out beyond for something called the ‘supernatural’.

Jonathan McShane: On ghosts, no I've never had any supernatural experiences and I've never taken a particular interest in the supernatural world. Sorry to give you such a boring answer.

Michael Levy (Conservative Chief Whip): Although I receive varied and interesting mail, your questions are a definitive first. I generally have quite enough on my plate dealing with the corporeal without having to delve into the unknown. Fortunately I have had no supernatural experiences - although listening to some debates in the Council Chamber might qualify and therefore its not a subject I would class as having any impact on my thoughts. Although I do believe in the supernatural.
Since we live in a Democracy people are free to make up their own minds on the matter.

Katie Hanson: "Rationalist - don't believe in anything supernatural."

Christine Boyd: I suppose the definition of “supernatural” is key here, if I take it as meaning something that I can’t explain then the answer would be yes (No comment on the details) – but then again that applies to lots of things. For example I can’t explain Tory policies either, but tend to class those as sinister or spooky rather than supernatural. I don’t think this is a significant subject, certainly does not compare with global warming, child poverty or many of the problems people face on a day to day basis.

Meg Hillier, Labour: Spokesperson: "Meg is still on maternity leave at the moment so I don’t think we can help on this occasion."

Diane Abbott, Labour: A researcher said that the MP for Hackney North and Stoke Newington had not had any supernatural experiences. When asked if the supernatural was a significant issue she said: "I’ve spoken to Diane but unfortunately she doesn’t have any other comments to make."

Andrew Boff, Conservative: I've experienced odd coincidences but not enough to make me believe in pixies. I don't think you can explain things by using myth rather than evidence. I enjoy the goings on at Hogworts but I do not think that is an explanation for what happens away from the pages of a book.
Did you want more?
Yes - I am an atheist - the only God is Dawkins.


This was not a serious exercise but it seems likely that the people of Hackney take this subject more seriously than their politicians. Back in 2005 the borough was caught up in a scandal surrounding African churches, exorcism and child abuse. At the time Diane Abbott wrote a piece for the Evening Standard called "Ban these witchcraft churches?"

The fact that a large number of Hackney charities are religious, 22% compared to 10% national average, could indicate the extent to which Hackney residents take supernatural issues seriously.