Rabbi Abraham Pinter has answered a number of questions about the Charedi community in Stamford Hill. Here he discusses allegations that womens' rights are under threat at his own school.
Showing posts with label gender. Show all posts
Showing posts with label gender. Show all posts
Monday, 27 February 2012
Friday, 17 February 2012
"Notorious" article on Charedi men cleared by Press Complaints Commission
This blog has more than once referred to an article written by Jewish Chronicle columnist and historian Geoffrey Alderman - mainly as an example of how heated the debate between different sections of the Jewish community can become.
Monday, 7 November 2011
Tension over Charedi sexual harassment claims
A claim that Charedi men "are notorious harassers of the opposite sex" has raised the stakes in a long-running stand off between Professor Geoffrey Alderman and Rabbi Abraham Pinter.
The two men often provide polar opposite arguments about Hackney's Charedi community.
Alderman's run-ins with the 'ultra orthodox Jewish' community have taken in a range of topics from schooling and statistics to "selfishness". Pinter has usually provided the rebuttal.
However tensions were raised to a higher level last week after Alderman wrote a piece in the Jewish Chronicle which said: "It is, however, well known that charedi men are notorious harassers of the opposite sex."
His comments appear to have prompted an organised campaign against him and the newspaper.
Rabbi Pinter told Blood and Property: "Alderman makes an appalling statement of collective libel. In his emails to you he clearly recognizes that he has made an error and should have chosen his words more carefully. However, it is unacceptable for him to try to get out of his problem in private emails to you. He must apologise for the collective libel and then I will be happy to respond."
The article was first discussed by fellow Hackney blogger, If you tickle us, and comments under the post included a pre-written letter to the Press Complaints Commission which the anonymous author hopes will be sent en masse by enraged Charedim. It describes Alderman's views as "unfounded, defamatory and discriminatory".
The same comment also provided an anonymised pre-written letter for the attention of the Jewish Chronicle calling for Alderman's "suspension as (a) writer for the JC pending the results a full investigation" due to his "continuously hateful conduct towards Charedi Jewry as a whole."
Blood and Property asked Alderman if his comments were meant to single out Charedi men as worse harassers of women than other communities or human beings in general.
He said: "That is not what I was saying. I don't know if there is necessarily a higher instance of harassment of women in Charedi communities than in the general population, I don't have statistics to show that, but that's not the point I was making.
"What I was saying is that they - the Charedim - set themselves very high standards which, I'm very sorry to say, they do not reach. They say they are closer to God than any other jewish group and yet this sort of thing still goes on."
Blood and Property asked if it was reasonable to expect any one community to behave better than another one and criticise them if they didn't. Alderman said: "It is they, - the Charedim - who set the standard they seem incapable of reaching. It is obvious to me that growing up in that sort of community does not make you any better than any other person. Do me a favour: ring up Rabbi Pinter (Avrohom Pinter) and ask him why this is so."
Ask him: "Does growing up in your community make you any better - as a Jew - than me? "
As stated above, Pinter told Blood and Property: "Alderman makes an appalling statement of collective libel. In his emails to you he clearly recognizes that he has made an error and should have chosen his words more carefully. However, it is unacceptable for him to try to get out of his problem in private emails to you. He must apologize for the collective libel and then I will be happy to respond."
Alderman said he didn't have a problem with the formal treatment of women in the Charedi community saying that the women were often the bread winners. He added that when he got married in the Lea Bridge Road synagogue in Clapton in 1973 a number of his wife's relatives, Chardim from Stamford Hill - came to the wedding and they themselves offered a neat loophole to the gender segregation problem - by asking that each family sit as a group at each table.
Alderman also pointed out that the content of his column was discussed, edited and approved by the newspaper before publication so any division between himself and the newspaper over the piece was unlikely.
His comments appear to have prompted an organised campaign against him and the newspaper.
Rabbi Pinter told Blood and Property: "Alderman makes an appalling statement of collective libel. In his emails to you he clearly recognizes that he has made an error and should have chosen his words more carefully. However, it is unacceptable for him to try to get out of his problem in private emails to you. He must apologise for the collective libel and then I will be happy to respond."
The article was first discussed by fellow Hackney blogger, If you tickle us, and comments under the post included a pre-written letter to the Press Complaints Commission which the anonymous author hopes will be sent en masse by enraged Charedim. It describes Alderman's views as "unfounded, defamatory and discriminatory".
The same comment also provided an anonymised pre-written letter for the attention of the Jewish Chronicle calling for Alderman's "suspension as (a) writer for the JC pending the results a full investigation" due to his "continuously hateful conduct towards Charedi Jewry as a whole."
Blood and Property asked Alderman if his comments were meant to single out Charedi men as worse harassers of women than other communities or human beings in general.
He said: "That is not what I was saying. I don't know if there is necessarily a higher instance of harassment of women in Charedi communities than in the general population, I don't have statistics to show that, but that's not the point I was making.
"What I was saying is that they - the Charedim - set themselves very high standards which, I'm very sorry to say, they do not reach. They say they are closer to God than any other jewish group and yet this sort of thing still goes on."
Blood and Property asked if it was reasonable to expect any one community to behave better than another one and criticise them if they didn't. Alderman said: "It is they, - the Charedim - who set the standard they seem incapable of reaching. It is obvious to me that growing up in that sort of community does not make you any better than any other person. Do me a favour: ring up Rabbi Pinter (Avrohom Pinter) and ask him why this is so."
Ask him: "Does growing up in your community make you any better - as a Jew - than me? "
As stated above, Pinter told Blood and Property: "Alderman makes an appalling statement of collective libel. In his emails to you he clearly recognizes that he has made an error and should have chosen his words more carefully. However, it is unacceptable for him to try to get out of his problem in private emails to you. He must apologize for the collective libel and then I will be happy to respond."
Alderman said he didn't have a problem with the formal treatment of women in the Charedi community saying that the women were often the bread winners. He added that when he got married in the Lea Bridge Road synagogue in Clapton in 1973 a number of his wife's relatives, Chardim from Stamford Hill - came to the wedding and they themselves offered a neat loophole to the gender segregation problem - by asking that each family sit as a group at each table.
Alderman also pointed out that the content of his column was discussed, edited and approved by the newspaper before publication so any division between himself and the newspaper over the piece was unlikely.
Saturday, 24 April 2010
Darren Caplan - the corrections...and dinner
Darren Caplan has pointed out an error in an earlier story: Darren Caplan on women's bodies (the corrections have been made and he has left a full comment after the post.)
He also telephoned to say he'd replied in the comments section. During the conversation he said that he may respond to the other story: Darren Caplan, Simon Nayyar...are these criticism's fair?
The story repeats claims from this story:Move over MPs expenses, there's a new scandal in town. (Incidently the same excerpts from the same article were published in the comments section of Luke's Blog on April 2.)
The criticism is that both Darren Caplan and Simon Nayyar work for lobbying firms that represent supermarkets Tesco and Asda respectively, but claim to support local businesses in their campaigns.
Caplan told Blood and Property that he did not work on the Tescos account and added that a number of prospective MPs come from this profession including Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg.
Blood and Property hopes he'll be able to answer a few more questions about what the job entails - whether standing in an election is just a good thing for a Lobbyist to have on his CV, or whether Hackney could benefit from an MP trained in the dark arts?
And while you wait, here's a 40 minute video debate with Darren Caplan: Question Dine in which he deals with questions on voting at 16 and immigration, all in a dinner party setting. I enjoyed the 15 minutes I watched.
He also telephoned to say he'd replied in the comments section. During the conversation he said that he may respond to the other story: Darren Caplan, Simon Nayyar...are these criticism's fair?
The story repeats claims from this story:Move over MPs expenses, there's a new scandal in town. (Incidently the same excerpts from the same article were published in the comments section of Luke's Blog on April 2.)
The criticism is that both Darren Caplan and Simon Nayyar work for lobbying firms that represent supermarkets Tesco and Asda respectively, but claim to support local businesses in their campaigns.
Caplan told Blood and Property that he did not work on the Tescos account and added that a number of prospective MPs come from this profession including Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg.
Blood and Property hopes he'll be able to answer a few more questions about what the job entails - whether standing in an election is just a good thing for a Lobbyist to have on his CV, or whether Hackney could benefit from an MP trained in the dark arts?
And while you wait, here's a 40 minute video debate with Darren Caplan: Question Dine in which he deals with questions on voting at 16 and immigration, all in a dinner party setting. I enjoyed the 15 minutes I watched.
Friday, 23 April 2010
Corrected: Darren Caplan on Women's bodies
Darren Caplan pops up in this debate: "Politics: Women and body image"
According to Annie Loves he said: "“I accept that having projections of the ‘body beautiful’ everywhere doesn’t help in getting positive messages across. But we should be seeking to make stronger citizens, not doctor the environment in which they grow up.”
(The original incorrect version: According to Annie Loves he said: "All these pictures around us bombard us with the message that unless you’re young, white, thin and beautiful – in inverted commas – then you’re really not worth very much.” In fact this comment was made by Janice Williams, the director of Object. Darren has provided his full statement in the comments)
According to Annie Loves he said: "“I accept that having projections of the ‘body beautiful’ everywhere doesn’t help in getting positive messages across. But we should be seeking to make stronger citizens, not doctor the environment in which they grow up.”
(The original incorrect version: According to Annie Loves he said: "All these pictures around us bombard us with the message that unless you’re young, white, thin and beautiful – in inverted commas – then you’re really not worth very much.” In fact this comment was made by Janice Williams, the director of Object. Darren has provided his full statement in the comments)
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